Podcast 003 - Ryan Decker from Wasatch Recovery
“You have to admit that you love drugs more than you love your kids.”
Today we are joined by Ryan Decker of Wasatch Recovery who shares his story about flipping the script. Having the same drive and determination for recovery as he did in his addiction. He talks about the tricky balance of setting boundaries both with patients and with family members. Staying active and engaged, and the turn-around story of a relative from a future of prison and homelessness to having the freedom to write his own story. Never give up and always strive to be better. You can always be a better version of yourself.
The Illuminate Recovery Podcast is about Mental Health, Mental Illness, and Addiction Recovery. Shining light on ways to cope, manage, and inspire. Beyond the self care we discuss, you may need the help of a licensed professional. Curt Neider and Shelley Mangum are a part of Illuminate Billing Advocates. They are committed to helping better the industry and adding value to the lives of listeners by sharing tools, insights, and success stories of those who are working on their mental health.
Transcript (no grammar):
you have to admit that you love drugs more than you love your kids today we are joined by ryan decker of wasatch recovery who shares his story about flipping the script having the same drive and determination for recovery as he did in his addiction he talks about the tricky balance of setting boundaries both with patients and with family members staying active and engaged and the turnaround story of a relative from a future of prison and homelessness to having the freedom to write his own story never give up and always strive to be better you can always be a better person of yourself enjoy welcome to the illuminate recovery podcast we shed light on mental health issues mental illness and addiction recovery ways to cope manage and inspire beyond the self-care we will discuss you may need the help of a licensed professional my name is kurt neider i'm a husband father entrepreneur a handyman and a student of life i avoid conflict i deflect with humor and i'm fascinated by the human experience and i'm shelley mangum i am a clinical mental health counselor and my favorite role of all times is grandma i am a seeker of truth and i feel like life should be approached with tremendous curiosity i ask the dumb questions i fill in the gaps all right we are here today with ryan decker and ryan works at wasatch recovery ryan is a good friend of mine and i'm so excited to be with him today ryan um maybe just introduce yourself for a second okay um my name is ryan decker i work at wasatch recovery been a recovery for a little over six years and i've kind of worked in the industry for five so i've kind of uh worked a few different places and then actually came back home to wasatch where i actually went through treatment six years ago so you've got you're on your own recovery path yep how often do you share that story i just did about an hour ago to to the group so i'm pretty passionate about recovery and and really uh i mean with everything going on in the world today you know it's it's uh addictions through the roof like people are dying right and left and you know with the boredom and isolation or what uh kill us and the world's kind of telling us to do that so it's made my job uh really kind of difficult because um fascinating enough people really don't want help right now you know it's almost it's it's something that you would think okay you know there'd be so many people trying to help they're not and it's it's really uh it's tough you know there's i hate that phone call from parents you know so um but hopefully people start coming around and people start wanting help because it's uh it's tough out there right now interesting so yeah i would have thought that that business would be even booming because because of all of the challenges with kovid but you're saying people are pulling back and not right i mean so it's it's crazy because and that's just not us you know i've talked to you know our colleagues in the industry and that's pretty general across the board i mean it's it's hard because when you have kids at home like for me for example um kids at home it wouldn't be an ideal time for me to go get going to treatment because i got kids that aren't going to school now so who's going to like take care of them who's going to get them there and so a lot of that has to do with i think with the uncertainty of like the world like um it's just and then plus you know people are unemployment you know they're getting free money and then they're getting stimulus checks and so it's like is there a right time and you know it's so it's almost hopeless right like with the uh the dangle the carrot like everything's gonna go back to normal and then they pull it away and unfortunately i think with that just nobody's willing to get healthy right now wow when this is such a high risk population i mean they're at risk of losing their lives and dying is overdose it happens all the time and that's got to be incredibly frustrating to not be able to to get them the help they need it is it's a it's really kind of my my downfall and sometimes i catch myself working harder than they are and wanting them to have what i have more than they do and uh yeah that's it's tough you know it's seriously it's like the worst part about my job but then you know there's those that other side where they get it and they get their families back and they get happiness and the hope and stuff and then that just uh outweighs the bad it's an interesting comment that you made of that that idea of balancing how hard you're working versus how hard they're working how do you balance that well that's the thing too is i do got to set uh you know boundaries and stuff i i got to when i first got in this industry i was like just trying to save everybody right and i would get so close to this p these people and um you know and then having them pass away or overdose or um you know an accident or suicide and it was taking a toll on me to a point where i was like you know what is this what i want to do for a career i mean because that you know i as a person right i was thinking well what could have i said or what could have i done differently and that's a lot in a career that's like not normal jobs right that's not um it became personal and so unfortunately i hate to say it but after the all these years i'm starting to get somewhat callous to the idea of death um which is sad right um you know my dad committed suicide in the 80s and we were just talking about this today in the 80s that was so rare right you never heard about that and nowadays it's so common and it's it's just it's tough and so it takes a certain kind of person to do like this kind of job and if you've noticed all the guys that kind of do what i do to other facilities we're all kind of the same right you got to help but you got to know when to kind of set those boundaries and not get too attached and not try too hard you know for them but they got to do that on their own yeah because there's a healthy balance there of and i like the way you said it i don't i mean you can say you're callous you kind of have to separate yourself from you know from people dying all the time just like a doctor or someone you know in that kind of practice cancer and all of that but at the same time you want it so badly for them because you've seen what it can do you see how it changes lives but yeah you can't work harder for them then they're willing to work for themselves yeah that's uh that's that's it and so that that's and that's easier said than down to balance when it's life and death and there's family and there's kids involved and you know it's it's tough but you know what like i said those people that are getting their families back getting their lives back you know it's just we're in the trenches i'm in the trenches with them fighting and you know i keep doing it even though yeah i gotta take care of my own mental health and my own self-care um you know because you definitely that's a whole another balancing act you have to do oh well that's crazy and i think about what you just shared is that you know your own dad committed suicide so you carry that you carry that memory with you and so when someone in treatment commits suicide how does that affect you well for me i always look at you know like how selfish right that you know all you had to do is get through another day and you know as a kid you always think what could have i said what could i have done and it's almost the same in my profession which is probably helps in what i do right because i've done this i've kind of navigated through this i've processed the through this stuff and um you know it's just such a unique unique thing but yeah that's that's heartbeat i got it i'd like to think i have a big heart and um man for the first while i thought man this isn't i can't do this job you know i just can't do this you know because because i just would love everybody and and i'm the guy that you know would bring brings all the stray cats home you know so into this you can't do that so it's all about those boundaries so well then isn't that one of the one of the basic things that you learn in recovery is how to set healthy relationship boundaries yeah and it feels like you're being cruel and unkind but at the same time you're being very clear and the expectations are very clear but it's hard yeah it is but i think i've done a lot better job of it and and uh you know like i said there's people are getting it and people are getting their lives back and it's it's like nothing greater on this earth to see well i can't imagine a job that's probably more rewarding than what you do and harder than what you do it's probably the hardest one in the industry would you agree with that yeah i would um you know because a lot of times the other employees at facilities and stuff like that um they don't get so involved in their back life right like with their families and their kids and you know going to their house and doing interventions and getting to see like them with their kids or you know with their wives or whatever so you know that definitely makes it more difficult because you do get attached whether you whether you like to or not you do well and and the whole you can't you can't really be effective in an intervention if you don't make connection if you if they don't trust you which is relationship right and so you can't you can't do one and not the other that's it right there because that that's my job is to to let them trust me let let me you know um believe in them until they can believe in themselves and that's very hard to not get you know connected kind of like on a personal level where you're invested in their lives and so it is hard and this job is definitely not for everybody so well so you know a lot of people have never experienced the intervention they don't really know what that is can you talk through some of what you do there yeah so really that that involves just family um family friends people are beneficial for them and you know that their well-being you know getting them together and before that person even comes in the picture and talking to them and setting up a meeting that everybody can share you know how they changed and you know that they just want them to be happy and you structure a plan together so the moment they say yeah i'll do it i mean they go right from there and then there's the part that you know if they aren't willing to go with all the you know love is poured out to them then there's that boundary talks where spouses have to use leverage like you know then we're not staying married or parents saying well we're not paying your bills you know there's a boundary and sometimes yeah it's you know they could say going in for the wrong reasons right and not going in on their own free will but that's the stuff that saves their lives too you know what i mean when they get in and then the light bulbs are going off in their heads when they're in treatment right and then they realize holy crap yep i this was out of control and then they always you know well thank the family for setting those heart boundaries but it's it's a unique unique thing and not a lot of people um i mean it's crazy i don't do a ton of them you know a lot of times i coach families through you know on kind of what to do and um but a ton of people since they came out the show there's you know when they tried to do an intervention on me when i was doing it i walked right through the room saw it and i was like nope i'm out walked right past you know so so but it really is what they do on the show is really how you do it you know you write letters and things like that and um but like i said it saves people's lives you know you'd like everybody to be willing and to do whatever it takes and that because that's really what it takes in recovery is you have to be willing to do whatever it takes you know so so how did you um how did you end up in recovery then if you weren't going to have nothing to do with that right so it was kind of funny it was um yeah i mean i just i'd been on opiates for decades and um i turned to got onto xanax and um when i quit taking them i just tried to quit right me being a narcissist like oh you know i'll just stop them um you know grand mal seizure after grand mal seizure ambulance right after ambulatory i i finally got to that point where like physically i could not stop on my own right and it was like legitimately going to kill me and you know i got through little you know i had three little kids at the time and the last thing i wanted to do is to kind of do to them what my dad did to me right and it was that selfish thing um and so i actually you know got into detox and it was so it was so bad and the seizures were so bad that i couldn't legitimately walk i couldn't write my name um so i detoxed for nine days and um you know mark the owner wasatch mark richard she uh came and saw me in detox and it was like i felt it on like immediately a whole bunch of other places came and but i felt it on mark immediately and you know mark he's got that he's just got that spirit of gold man that guy loves everyone yep and so and i just trust i trusted him and now i kind of do what he did and i hope that they'll trust me you know and and but that was it i came from wasatch in 90 days planned on only doing 30. i might have threatened i was going to leave a couple times um because you know then again being that narcissist right that that guy i didn't want to go to the places they wanted me to go to right i want to talk about my dad you know that was so long ago that's not even part of my reason now right and so really kind of processing through all the crap right and um but it what was amazing we didn't talk about like the drugs and alcohol that much we're talking about why did in the first place and how we're going to get you happy again and we've got this guy he's he's amazing his name's todd sylvester he actually has a podcast and the guy's the most inspirational loving man i've ever met and you know kind of things that he taught me about how happiness can be a choice and there are belief systems that were broken is kind of bs um really kind of changed everything you know so i legitimately had to start over at home after creating you know giving up my career selling everything trucks and all the things i thought would make me happy selling that all to keep my family um afloat you know with my wife having to go back to work full time and um you know and then i just decided okay this is like a fresh start like what do i want to do and i thought how cool is it that those guys get to help people right and and i i thought well i don't we didn't know where to get started so i called mark and mark said yeah you have to have to have at least a year clean you know and it was funny because uh detox down utah county actually took a chance on me and that's kind of where it went and it ever since then it's just i i absolutely love it um but then i hate it sometimes too but it's it's the that self-care and you know they kind of disconnect for a minute you know um that's huge and it took a while to learn how to do that you know that not getting so attached well it's probably still ongoing yeah always i mean and it it's the thing about addiction it's so unique is nobody's immune to this i mean we've seen everything from doctors to lawyers to dentists to church figures and the thing is nobody's immune to this you know i don't nobody ever wakes up one day and says you know what i think i want to be an alcoholic right like i think i want that trial to be mine um and so you know that was a conversation that was really um kind of tough for me to have with my kids you know while i'm up here through christmas and treatment you know and and for the first while i just tell them you know what dad's just dad's at the hospital getting better that's the gist of it right and my kids are so intuitive but they're also so resilient and so then i we had this open honest conversation where i apologized and that this was never intentional right and now i've got this relationship with my kids it is unbelievable you know and now i've got a son who's 19 playing baseball in oregon that's you know having to deal with a lot those decisions that i made wrong and you know me being able to be clear-headed and sober enough to help them navigate through life problems and so that's that's pretty it's pretty cool that's way cool i mean because you wouldn't have that kind of relationship had you just kept you know kind of doing what you were doing there was too much stuff underneath there and you said you used the word narcissist you're this narcissist those are the hardest ones in treatment right how do you get past that part that that was it was it was uh it was crazy because for the first while while i was in treatment i would kind of listen to everybody else and i kind of just tell them what they want to hear right i'm just doing my time right my whole reasons let me get this out of my body so i'm not dependent anymore on them i go out and i'll be good um so you know that wall i set up and not wanting to go there i had some therapists that were incredibly like good at pushing me where i didn't want to go and i would push back um but you know about day 60 you know when i'm like i'm out of here and they're like you know what you haven't even surrendered yet i'm like what does that even mean right but um you know and i had to hear something that was really hard to hear he told me says you gotta admit you love drugs more than your kids and for me you know my kids in my whole world and i was like okay i'm gonna hit this guy as hard as i can right and i just kind of i walked out of the group and i was i was heated and i thought about it you know for through the night i thought about i'm like i'd like this breakdown like holy crap something came in between what i love most and that's just not right on any level like you know what i mean and and for me at that point forward i was just i just let go of the will i mean these guys have seen it talk to everybody i mean they've done it all and you know i dropped the carrying what anybody else thought about me and just let go of the will and from there on i legitimately busted my butt and i worked for you know until i hit the 90-day mark and and it was you know and the crazy thing is it's not like when you leave that you're healed there's no magic potion right so legitimately i set up an aftercare plan in utah county because i didn't want to come up to salt lake every day or every other day and uh i think it wasn't a very good one but the one thing it did do is that accountability right and be able to talk about you know my life how it is now being out and it's 100 like they said i walked into my house from leaving here walked straight down into the bathroom in my environment and reached above the door cell raised to high pills just on memory like just like you go right back your environment and it was like instant and i caught myself with my arm above my head thinking what in the hell like like it was like that powerful and that's where a lot of what um my good friend toss sylvester taught me right that recognized the addictive voice right and and that these are your choices and um i mean super super powerful stuff that i work every day to stay clean so you know i did 90 days of inpatient 90 days of outpatient but it didn't stop you know wasatch has five silver softball teams we have a sober golf league we do alumni on sundays and and so it's a full community and it's hard to detach from the world you want to do right telling friends that are beneficial for your recovery that here's the deal and detaching from that and changing careers and um you know that's not easy but what was good for me is it's such a smooth transition the wasatch staff became like my sponsors like my family and it was like immediate to where we became like best friends and it was my kids would come up to softball and hang out with their kids and i it was just such you know it it it was it's amazing it couldn't have happened any other way but that's the thing i always tell people is you stay connected you stay honest you know what i mean and you'll be fine the hardest thing about addiction that i tell these guys is think about how exhausting it is to be an addict right you do something usually illegal or whatever to get money to set up a meeting with somebody which you're hoping you don't get arrested while saying a meeting hoping that when you use it you don't get raped or mugged and then doing it over and over and over and over again like your life depends on it if you can flip that switch to your recovery or your family if you find survival mode i gotta have that so i'm not sick you just flip that switch in your recovery and you would be fine because it's like you're life dependent on right where people are robbing their own grandparents right all you have to do is flip that switch into recovery business family whatever and you'll be successful i mean and it's just hard because a lot of people just don't see that there is hope they don't think that they can do it yeah well and it's interesting because you you say flip the switch but it's not that easy right because because that use of drugs and i always think about the maslow's hierarchy right it's the most important thing is food and clothing and shelter except if you have an addiction pattern and then it's then it's the drug and it becomes more important like you said that even those precious kids that you have right and so it's not so easy to flip that switch because it's actually rewired the brain it's 100 right it's survival that is your number one priority and that's that's it and that's where you know like a residential facility is so good right because for some people as tough as you think you are sometimes you need to be removed from your whole situation from yourself almost right because on the outside oh i get sick okay i'm gonna make a phone call i can't do it anymore right and guys are weak especially guys right there's a reason why women you know are the ones that can you know deliver children because we're we're we're not that tough but you know it's it's just such a tough thing and that's where it's so good you come to residential it's almost like a detoxification period right where you can finally get into a routine where you're eating right you're sleeping right you're you know you're getting healthy again while gaining tools to really put into use when you get out but in a controlled environment with a support group because this isn't easy i mean you've looked at statistics i mean they're not they're not good right well you just shared the story you went home and your immediate reaction was where's the drugs right i'm gonna go right back into that pattern how did the drugs end up getting gone like was that they weren't there right yeah we did yeah so well they they so yeah so we did a little scavenger hunt in my house and we found so many so so much drugs like i'd hit for myself right i mean and it was it was crazy even to like last year throwing on some hunting clothes and there's a couple x in my pocket and i'm like dude am i ever gonna like finding these all over but um but that's the thing too if you look at being an alcoholic right you can't avoid a gas station or a restaurant forever right so you've just got to figure out how to deal with that and you know like i said rewire you got to rewire flip the switch and stay busy one of the biggest things i think in recovery is we cannot we cannot be bored and isolate we can't we need we need one another right we need to stay out of our heads i mean i keep goals from sun up to sundown i'm doing something still i stay incredibly busy and that makes it a whole lot easier right and as you get time under your belt gets easier and easier and easier and easier but then it's you're just like a pattern a routine where you're accomplishing so much and it's it's pretty amazing because you think about addicts and alcoholics we just kind of let life pass us by we were just content we were just content with the way we were as we're slowly going downhill and you know our you know we could have very well died or we suicidal i don't know but i mean in the same thing that you don't care if you wake up or not i mean that's how serious it is and you know once you get dreams and your hopes and goals and that you get clean like you can do whatever some of the most successful people i know in recovery and they learned how to just kind of flip that switch and their drive became something instead of drugs they focus on something else and it's it's amazing because those are the ones that are the people are out there killing it you know well these yeah and i would say maybe maybe it's a generalization but the people that i meet in recovery are some of the highest functioning the most amazing people on the face of the earth it's like they have to have a handicap right to to not kick the rest of us out of here it is crazy it's almost like we get you get you got these brilliant people that just get kind of bored of life right and it's it's amazing when you can refocus your energy into doing something good you know the service or to family or your recovery you know i'm pretty open with my recovery you know i you know i it doesn't define me but i i'm kind of proud of where i've been i mean that's part of my story is kind of part of who i am i mean before coming into wasatch i was uh i don't like to speak in front of people you know i mean i wouldn't i didn't wasn't the guy that's gonna just put myself out there but then it's like when i got out i thought hey my palms get a little sweaty it's almost kind of like a drug getting uncomfortable getting up comfortable was like it was so it was so healthy like for me to grow you know and pushing yourself to go places you don't want to go is where you start to grow yeah and so it's pretty cool that's neat i'm curious um you know a year ago finding xanax in your pocket while you're you know your hunting pocket what was that experience like for you it was it's it's been with me being this industry you know i see it all the time right so it was as simple as you know drop on the ground step and turn and my son you know it's i've got i've got the greatest support group on the planet i mean between you know my co-workers that happen to be some of my dearest friends and a family that's fully involved in my recovery um it's pretty easy not to be tempted anymore you know what i mean that's kind of dissipated uh but every once in a while you know it you you still think about it right i mean that doesn't go away for good but it's um you know it was pretty cool so i went and got my five year chip before the coven days last year and we did it at we have an alumni down at our outpatient building and some of the best meetings ever and you know very hope and recovery topics driven and i might my kid said dad we want to go and i had always been like okay there's no way i could bring my kids there because you got they got people chanting and they're gonna be like what the heck but what was amazing is we go to this meeting and it's full all these people that i've either helped get into treatment or that have got years of sobriety that are in there now they're helping other people and i've got my three kids there and it was a powerful meeting i mean it's just to see how much how proud they were of me and that they've been in this journey with me because it is a family thing you know i mean it's it was the most amazing meeting and to have like all the staff of people that were there that helped me through the process was that it was awesome well makes me wonder you know i was talking to somebody else in recovery earlier today and we were talking about the value of family what role does family play and you know and so often in in treatment centers family isn't necessarily that engaged what what's your perspective on that well it's it's also hard to because um it's such a lot to deal with just yourself right you got to figure your stuff out before we start incorporating families right i mean for me if i would have tried to do anything family related with the first 30 days i mean i really don't remember a whole lot of it i was so foggy and still detoxing you know i was sick but incorporating the family's shoes because they need to they need to understand triggers or here's the new plan okay and this is how it works and this is your best chances for success and things like that so we do like a family education line tuesdays um now that cove it's over we get to start doing them again and we do we bring people in to do um like family sessions with their therapist because that's so huge and you know what's it's crazy is we're in here you know we come here and we're getting healthy right the families are left with all the aftermath and they need their they need to get help too right that's a lot i mean to be a loved one think i wasn't enough to keep him from doing this or whatever and all the hell that you bring with it so them getting help their own individual help is so huge too um but really it's got to be that open and honest you know connection with everybody around you i mean it's it's a family thing well and there's this idea like what you said right you're in treatment you're giving it all you've got you're finally flipping that switch and starting to shift and and make different choices and see how that's going to work in your life and then you leave here and your family dynamic was one but what about the guy who goes back into his family of origin his parents and his siblings and they didn't they didn't get any help and they expect him to behave the same way as he did when he left and they're still you know expecting him to be the screw-up in quotations right and he's not i mean how does that does what do you see happening there it's so hard because all the dynamics are so different um and that's where a lot of the stuff for example um somebody that i know really well comes through the program both his parents are addicts right and for him it was time to start adulting starting your own story and if they come around they come around right you can't save you can't save them and that was a completely different dynamic but he started his own life and now he's got years playing now they see that and they come while he has so now they're actually getting help but families it's so hard because you can't force anybody right and you can encourage right i hope they do it and sometimes places like al anon you know if they're willing to go or you know some of these groups to realize that hey you're not the only one going through this this helped me this could help you and um you know we do we do a lot we do a lot we try to educate as much as we can but it's so hard to because still normies right people that i've never used they have they just don't understand fully like what's going on and sometimes even when you explain it to them they still don't get it yeah and it's true like right because we don't know what we don't know and they have no frame of reference so um so when is um when is the journey of recovery over when i'm dead i mean i'm still constantly learning i'm still constantly growing um i mean it's it's never over i mean this it is something that i like to think that i won't have to deal with it again right but then again you never want to say never right i mean i've got a shoulder surgery i need to do i put it off for years because i'm that scared of opiates you know and um i think i could do it now right and i could probably try to do it without but i'm also not very tough but but yeah it's never over i'm always constantly growing each time i talk to people and i hear something that's working for them i'm like okay that makes sense or you know somebody that's you know okay it's there's so many inspiring people in recovery i mean it's seriously like i'm always learning and every day is something different in this field every day is never the same and there's some things that i i i go home and like shake my head like did that just just happen right and so you to be able to adapt and really kind of learn and grow into this because the world is evolving things are getting worse you know and to be able to keep my recovery stay staying stronger and growing because i think that's what's gonna it's gonna was gonna take to help other people you know oh yeah well in your family you're you're outside of your immediate family your recovery family is who you work with yeah and so they're watching you right and you start messing up they're calling you out decker what's going on man that's it yeah and that that helps too you know do you think and this is an interesting question um you know as a therapist as a as a mental health counselor you know i see lots of people that deal with with addiction and mental health issues but i also see me being on my own recovery journey right i don't come unscathed from from life any more than anybody else do you think um you know and i look back on my stuff in in my story and i think wow i am so grateful for those experiences because how how would i have ever gotten here you know um do you think recovery's for everyone yeah yeah yeah for sure i mean in in this world nobody doesn't have an issue i don't care who you are there's you can actually incorporate a lot of what you learn in substance abuse and mental health like programs incorporating your own life like i you know my wife used to say i wish i could just go there go for 30 days and focus on myself and learn and grow i mean wasatch recovery is the greatest university on the planet it really is i put the stuff aside we're trying to teach people how to live better more productive happy lives who doesn't need that right you know i couldn't agree more so as you other than your own you know recovery story and and the successes you experienced there is there's a story that sticks out in your mind of you know someone that you've helped through recovery oh there's there's quite there's quite a few um there's quite a few i'm trying to think of one and put me on the spot now i really there's probably not just one i helped talk to so many people um probably a a family member that legitimately um that i actually didn't know like way down the line but i knew you know and it was faux or his grandparents and the fact that this kid didn't stand a chance like didn't stand a chance it had shown in his family that that's just what it is in and out of prison and out of jail you know and homelessness was real and it was crazy to you know mark put with wasatch i said hey i want to help this kid right this is i know his grandparents are related to him and mark was kind of all in on it and he said you can stay here as long as you want and this kid and the kid he took him up on it he did something like 90 days of residential and did 18 months in our transitional living and our um outpatient the guy never had never had a driver's license never had a job he got a driver's license then bought a car worked two jobs you know like this transformation where this kid now has a life yeah i mean instead of him dying when he was 30 this guy is doing amazing things and he's actually you know doing some church stuff now where that wasn't even possible back then either and wow and so it's that's probably the one i'm like i saw him at our alumni meeting i'm like it's just awesome it's just freaking awesome when when it's blood i don't know there's something about someone that's just really related to you it's not you don't love everybody else the same but yeah there's just something more that deeper connection that makes it so much more worthwhile it was awesome well and you changed generations you just changed a generational pattern right which is i mean you didn't but he did and recovery did yeah and that's it that's what i think even though through all this dark stuff and death and stuff it's one person you know and i think like we said that doesn't have to do just me right i mean it doesn't matter if you're in recovery or not which most you know everybody's kind of in recovery from something but we could all change one person's life right i mean seriously in a dark day like we're living it's simple things it's that service that that giving them just hope and legitimately generations yeah well seeing them just seeing them right just just noticing that they exist and wherever it is because it's crazy how how difficult people are struggling with their mental health right now it's bad so bad and so if you if you had a piece of advice to offer our listeners um and i know that's kind of a big question what would be your piece of advice that you would offer probably probably never give up and always strive to be better i mean i think you know just real quick i mean when somebody's been through a program and they struggle and they do not want to call me right that's like huge for me because they trust me enough and they're not done fighting right they haven't gave up and that's inspiring for me right i wouldn't want to make that phone call to me you know what i mean because it's you have to humble yourself and that they just don't stop fighting and i think in a world where we are you just can always be a better version of yourself and help somebody so somebody that needs help somebody that's um you know that's really in a tough spot uh how do they get a hold of you who do they contact they can just call my direct cell phone number it's 801 318-4240 and that's legitimately my direct cell phone number so you give that to everyone everybody because you pick up the phone yep last night 3 30 in the morning took a call so that's pretty cool hey ryan thanks for your time today i sure appreciate it i know you're a busy guy but i love hearing your story and and just your enthusiasm so thank you thank you