“I’m gonna be ‘right sized.’ ”Sasha Antoun joins us from ReAlign Detox. She graduated from The Los Angeles Training Institute of Drug and Alcohol Studies and has been intentional about her work in the detox and substance abuse industry. For her it is a “calling”, so she talks about putting her personal work first and taking managed growth steps. She loves the pace and intensity of detox and getting individuals off to the right start towards recovery. Enjoy.
The Illuminate Recovery Podcast is about Mental Health, Mental Illness, and Addiction Recovery. Shining light on ways to cope, manage, and inspire. Beyond the self care we discuss, you may need the help of a licensed professional. Curt Neider and Shelley Mangum are a part of Illuminate Billing Advocates (illuminatebilling.com). They are committed to helping better the industry and adding value to the lives of listeners by sharing tools, insights, and success stories of those who are working on their mental health.
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i'm gonna be right sized sasha antoon joins us from realign detox she graduated from the los angeles training institute of drug and alcohol studies and has been intentional about her work in the detox and substance abuse industry for her it is a calling so she talks about putting her personal work first and taking managed growth steps she loves the pace and intensity of detox and getting individuals off to the right start towards recovery enjoy welcome to the illuminate recovery podcast we shed light on mental health issues mental illness and addiction recovery ways to cope manage and inspire beyond self-care we will discuss you may need the help of a licensed professional my name is kurt knighter i'm a husband father entrepreneur a handyman and a student of life i avoid conflict i deflect with humor and i'm fascinated by the human experience and i'm shelley mangum i am a clinical mental health counselor and my favorite role of all times is grandma i am a seeker of truth and i feel like life should be approached with tremendous curiosity i ask the dumb questions i fill in the gaps the illuminate recovery podcast is brought to you by illuminate billing advocates make billing and collections simple with leader in substance abuse and mental health billing services verification and analysis of benefits pre-authorizations utilization management accurate claim submission and management denial and appeal management and industry leading reporting improve your practice's cash flow and your ability to help your clients with eliminate billing advocates today on the podcast kurt and i get to talk with sasha antoon sasha is the business development at realign detox sasha is an all hands on deck type of a person she is passionate about mental health and substance abuse recovery she graduated from the los angeles training institute of drug and alcohol studies and her motto for life is i will always strive to be better and do better because i love what i do i love that thanks for being on today sasha oh thank you guys so much for having me um it's it's kind of fun so unlike some of our some of our guests um you know who are in different places you work in the detox arena which is kind of well i would say kind of that starting point um of where people sometimes start in recovery and and i'm curious and maybe we should start here is give us some background maybe a little bit as to how you ended up working at real line and and kind of some history totally i remember when people used to ask me how i got started working in the industry there was almost this little bit of shame that would pop up because i didn't want to i really didn't i remember being in sober living and i got a call from a person and they were like hey would you manage this sober house and i was like man i don't think i'm the right fit for something like that i'm a sensitive person you know i'm really feelsy and i just i don't know how who i am would interplay with a setting like that and i like that from the beginning i've taken it very seriously i've never taken what we do lightly but i think about three months later from that point i got a call again from the same individual and they were like you don't understand i need a female house manager and it needs to be you and at the time i was like reading the alchemist i was like contemplating life-changing decisions and all these things and now i carry much less shame about it for the fact that you know i think there's definitely something to be said for answering a calling and at first i wasn't ready but at that point then i was ready to you know answer the calling to like take the step of working into this field um i have done so that was starting in a lower level of care setting and i've done pretty much everything except being a direct like clinician working in client care in lower levels of care started house managing driver ua tech front desk administrative assistant operations supervisor um with some intake coordination stuff to then doing what i do now um what was that shame man that [ __ ] cause it i think what happens is that shame was like i fiercely love what i do now so it's almost embarrassing to be like i didn't want to do it and i thought i couldn't do it i think that is like the greater truth in that i thought that i wouldn't be good at it and it scared me because i i mean going to treatment changed my life so kind of the imposter thing just totally not wanting to let people down not not having that like self a sense sense of self would be selfless would it be like assurance or respect for yourself just didn't just not thinking you could do it maybe i think it's a little like combination of those things like who am i i mean really what the basis of it is is that who am i to step into this space and like try to guide these people i mean i still feel like that most of the time well i think that just recovery in and of itself has had so much stigma and so much shame associated with it right because we beat ourselves up for for what we do when we're using and and the relationship damages do you think any of that played a role i think it would be um you know i would be remiss to say that it didn't absolutely like being in recovery myself it has continually and still is this grand journey to figure out like what am i capable of and like why am i stopping myself from that over and over again because everything that says i can't and i won't is 100 in my head and every time that i have you know thankfully had people in my life that have been willing to nudge me past that i have been more than grateful so then talk a little about your recovery journey and what that was like yeah my recovery journey um like that's a ted talk in it of itself i figure i could probably take up some time with that so i'll try to figure out how to condense it as best as possible well i'll tell you i'll tell you too though the story is the best part at least wise from my perspective it's like if all you do is tell your story we win everybody wins and i love that i do think it is so powerful um that prospect of storytelling and listening there's like really a collective healing that happens on both ends that i'm definitely grateful to be a part of um so my recovery journey man was just as turbulent as can be and it was every stereotypical characteristic marker if you would expect of like a young woman and that ends up going down a different path it was as cookie cutter in textbook as you would imagine i mean starting very experimentally and i was in high school and just drifted my way through every substance until i ended up on heroin and methamphetamine um and then i did a very sizable amount of damage in a short period of time very thankfully um so by the time i was 20 years old i decided that it was enough and i was tired i was just so tired and i wanted to do it my way so bad but it was working out so poorly um and that was the most recent time that i had gone to treatment and did a full kind of continuum of care really just adopted this mindset of like i'm scared and i'm willing to do what you tell me to and i just laid it all out on the table and was like here's what it is here's everything i got tell me what to do with it tell me how to put it back together i don't want it anymore um and like that kind of attitude honestly is like the very simplified version of like how i've tried to approach my recovery process while i have done so much trial and error along the way i mean being actively involved in like 12-step recovery communities has also played a really large role in my life consistently um but it has been a continual journey really simply of saying like i am just tired of trying to do it my way and trying to think that i can manage and there are people that are much better and well suited to helping show me what to do and showing me how to get to where i need to be and just being willing to listen to that that's incredible it do you ever see a conflict or a a challenge between that idea of what am i capable of and and being the best that you can be and then being open and humble that's the word i'm going to use you know um willing to give it all up and surrender everything do you do you see a difficult time with those two i totally see what you're saying i think for me the kind of like definition that i adopt for humility would be right sized so that also means that i'm not going to like shrink myself it means that i'm like in direct proportion or exact proportion to how i'm supposed to be as it relates to like all things in my higher power and all these other like things it means i'm not being too small and i'm not being too big and i'm somewhere in the truth of like who and where i'm supposed to be um so i think if i am like actively seeking to find that spot there is an area in there where like i can strive to do and be more but not um also go back to then reach for the oh i totally know what i'm doing and i got this and i don't need to learn from anyone anymore i love that well and having that great support network is another huge piece of that because when people love you they tell you when you're messing up right they're like i have no problem going uh let's maybe check that somewhere a hundred percent i mean that's definitely like a chronic joke between a few of the close people in my life right now is like are they even really your friends if you love what they say all the time you know i definitely am grateful that i have found um quite a sizable recovery community that not only knows how to have fun and not take things too seriously but also knows when to take things seriously and tell me if i am you know like not making great decisions that's cool and i think that's i mean that's so important and valuable for anyone i don't care who you are if you're in recovery from life we need those good solid people around us so you talked about really kind of getting serious into recovery at about the age of 20 which i think that's kind of young for somebody to really turn it around and go yeah i'm done with this what were some of your pivotal moments that brought you there um that's a fantastic question i think like i said i really had this go fast go hard mission about my personality and how i was approaching life at the time and because of that i had a really sizable amount of consequences happen really quickly i was no stranger to the legal system i was no stranger to destroying the relationships in my life i had very few left at that time um strangely enough i have had experienced homelessness before and that is not even where i was that when i finally did decide to like surrender it was much more of an emotional kind of bottom that i had experienced of you know i have all these material things now but for some reason it's still insufficient um even with the substances and with the life that i thought i wanted so bad i have these things and nothing is working nothing is changing how i feel um and that was enough for me that kind of more emotional um stop in the road of i just can't do it anymore of course with a very forceful and loving nudge from my mother as well i mean i just chemically didn't have the insight at the time to like wholeheartedly want it either and i think that's like an okay thing to talk about i didn't know that i was gonna stay i didn't know that this is actually what i wanted it was just kind of the next right indicated step along with some forceful loving pushing that i was a bit resentful over at the time because i just wasn't chemically able to make sound decisions you know that's why i love working in a detox setting i know where my clients are at and i know that our physiology is just angry you know um so yeah i just i definitely connect to a higher level of care setting because i can still connect to that feeling really well that's um that's i love the the way you talk about that and i'm gonna i'm gonna kind of bounce off of the fact that you said you're just kind of this really sensitive feeling person and here you are in the really hard angry place of recovery dealing with people that are angry they don't want to be in treatment you know they they're not in a place where they can do that how do you make that work the way that i make it work is consistently and continually diligently doing the work of myself um that is the way and the only way that it can and will work um i need to be grounded in things that it takes for me to be safe and sane and sober every day um and that is like a non-negotiable do i fall short of that sometimes yes do i think my priorities like i have had those kind of discoveries about myself of what works over time but what i find and kind of like a philosophy that i hold really tightly when it comes to working with clients in substance abuse and mental health settings is that like i get to share the effects of a regulated nervous system with my clients so if i am doing the work on myself to self-regulate and to regulate my nervous system and when i'm showing up in a genuine way because i've done the work so i don't need to like hide my experience i'm showing up in a way where i am like tone match my tone and like the you know body language and all of these other things that comprise our communication like they're all congruent with what i'm saying because there's nothing that i have to like hide or swallow back when i'm there i get to show up in an authentic way for them and with them because i've done the work on myself and that really does um almost like in a silent way speak or feel like volumes that is like something i'm really passionate about is the only reason i get to work in the level of care that i'm so passionate about is because i have to continually do the work and establish that sense and feeling of safety they're coming in we're in fight or flight nothing feels or is safe like emotionally physiologically like everything's firing and it does not feel okay right that's why we're in this like constant attempt to like regulate regulate regulate whether that looks like substances or something else we're trying so hard so when i get to show up and kind of share in what it feels like to just step down for a moment and maybe be safe in this moment um that is like where a lot of the magic happens for me i can see why there's magic in that and i love the way you describe it which means you have you've done your work right you've done a lot of work and you you get how much how much we reflect to other people through our our body language those mirror neurons that are always firing i mean you're not going to pull one over on somebody that's in the heart of their addiction right they're watching for it safety is a big piece and and if there's something not true about you they will find it they will seek it out and they will hunt you down and make sure that you know it 100 that's why it's like so much of my job i just have to show up and be genuine and my clients see hear and feel that and sometimes even that might not be well received and that has like nothing to do with like it doesn't change my opinion about them that doesn't change you know anything other than i can see what's going on you know or maybe they're trying to tell me what's going on without being able to tell me what's going on like either way they're communicating in some way um whether it's angerly or not it can still be like received and then i can regulate and show them in that moment like okay we're gonna change a dynamic here though if you are doing this if you are angry maybe you're used to different responses to that my responses right now are not going to change powerful powerful you talked about and i can hear i can hear it as you describe this you talked about it being a calling which you know some people talk about it being a calling some people don't but share a little bit of what that looks like from your perspective what that looks like from my perspective is i mean from the moment that i said yes on to the phone call that one day just in my sober living to this decision that sounded scary and almost a little not smart to make um but the entire trajectory of my life has changed my trajectory of my education has changed i have found my passion i didn't think it could be possible working in such a cohesive and like facilitating growth type of environment um everything has changed since that moment my life would not look the way that it does today had i not answered that call in the way that i did um and i'm so grateful that you know i got to show up and like talk to a school counselor and be like i am in love with what i do can we work backwards like what works for what i'm doing okay we're going to pursue a clinical route i'm on the phone that makes sense and then maybe take some marketing classes too because that's just what makes sense with what i'm doing like that's unheard of um i do not and try not to lose sight of how unheard of it is that i can be so grateful for my job and feel so passionate about it like at the age that i'm at um i know not everyone has that experience where they get to talk to their friends and like to the personal people in their lives about their job the exact same way i talk to anyone in a professional setting i joke with my boss i'm like the same way i talk about you on a tour is how i talk about you to my best friend and that is not something a lot of people have so i think that has definitely been like divinely guided in a way that i could not have constructed and i was reluctant to well and for sure right but not not everybody holds the same belief structures and all of that but i love the way you you know you talk about that in a the authenticity piece of being able to come to work and be who you are in every aspect of your life not everywhere not everyone knows or feels that they have permission to do that and when you can't do that the incohesion of that is so disruptive to our internal selves right sometimes drives us to drugs um so i love the way you talk about that and that authenticity and being able to show up exactly how you are and honoring what that means and and the qualities and and maybe some of the weaknesses that come with that yeah absolutely because like what that looks like real time is like if i'm going through something in my personal life i have to show up for it in that moment i don't get to swallow it because i can't afford for it to come out and happen at work or with my clients you know i want to when i'm on the phone or on site talking with them like have them feel as seen and heard as humanly possible and a big part of that is like being able to see and hear myself and know where i am in relation to them right now and how i'm showing up in this world like how can i expect to be a safe container for my clients if i am not willing to do that for myself too i love it um share some of the work that you do we've talked about it a little bit but kind of talk about the role of detox in that you know recovery process and and what the goal is and maybe what's next totally so detox we're almost like i have a i'm a very visual person we're kind of like a decontamination room like you pull in the door closes there's like stuff that has to happen before the other door opens that you can then pass through we are the threshold between everything that is outside that door and like a life of recovery there is like the chaos and the destruction and the pain and the running and the manipulating and all these survival tactic-y things that tend to manifest in some very unsavory ways like that's what's on the other side of the door that people are trying to like knock on and walk into with us and so then we let them in and a large part of our role is again like talking about that safety we need them to now start going through this process with us with our staff with medical staff with clinicians they have come to be with us to stabilize medically and we need to make sure that they are physiologically going to be walked through to the process of abstinence if that is their journey or this medication-assisted treatment we need them to be walked through the process of whatever substance or plural they might be on to safely transition to that next phase and what our goal is and that can look like a bunch of different things and a lot of different things can happen along the way but what we are trying to do is like establish as much as possible some sense of normalcy as we walk someone back to the process of living in an entirely different world we have previously been in this like underworld substance abuse or alcoholism or whatever it is so now we're trying to it's not just like the easiest skip and jump to like come back to quote unquote right air quotes the real world um that process needs to be and gratefully can be guided um everything from like the emotions and everything that's coming up just as we process where we just were to where we are now you know it's i could probably rant forever on this so much happens in that first initial phase of treatment and that is what sets them up for the rest of treatment because detox alone is insufficient i mean discharge planning is a huge part of what we do too we are just the starting point we are the door opening and we want people to come inside and get safe and just sit down for a second right and like establish these feelings of safety and then we need to figure out as much as we can figure out with the short period of time and see what we can unpack and hold and guide and use what we know to make sure that they're set up for as best success as possible based off what our goals are so it's the transition point it's like the door opening everything else starts from this moment ideally the rest of their recovery and life from that point forward we'll start with that moment with us and you kind of talk about it on more of a general high level but how much how much can you really do in detox there's a there's controversy over you know they're detoxing they can't you know they can't really do a lot of functioning so what are the limits and what can you really do because you've alluded to it but talk about that a little more so i think there it does not it's not given enough credit um what establishing a sense of safety can do but we do very actively bear in mind where our clients are physiologically at while they're with us we cannot think like we're not doing emdr it's not happening it's not safe to do so in that time frame that we have them with us that's too short and where our brain is at is not at a healthy point for something like that to start so in terms of like therapeutic modalities and effectiveness like you're right we cannot get too intricate or complex but what we do need to do and what it is our part to do is to still be properly armed with all of the tools and therapeutic modalities that can and will be effective for whatever is going to show up for some people there's not a lot emotionally coming out right now and we're just really focusing on psychoeducation and water and food consumption and some adls and some cbt maybe we start trying to do a bit of a titration let's say they're at the end of detox and going to be transferring to residential we do want you involved in some groups at the end of detox so you will have a smoother transition into a residential program or if they do um a little bit of residential with us as well that is really what we want to see is a smooth and safe transition based off what our goals are and the treatment plan is so that is going to look a little bit differently for everyone um but we do have to be well prepared sometimes a lot starts coming up right away as soon as those chemicals are removed from the brain and what we were trying to run from is a little bit louder now um do i think that we are like detox is not the end-all be-all i don't you know what i mean i think so much more we're scratching the surface so in that regard i agree but it almost sounds a bit dismissive to like how important detox is because we need it to like set everyone up in the right direction um and i hear it from our clients like i know what can be accomplished when i do alumni calls and i hear them saying likeoh my god can you tell so and so that i say hi because i still remember when they were staying up and they talked to me you know like those are pivotal moments when we are just so sick and we just feel awful and our skin is crawling and i had another panic attack and all these things you know we're remembering the people that showed up for us in that way um those are the people that allow us to stay one more moment maybe one more day so we get closer to what that full clinical treatment plan is for us i love it i love the way you talk about safety i mean really if that's the if that's the the focus of their stay there right getting you know the detox of course and getting that attention but the safety because i think that's where every therapeutic approach starts in my head anyway is safety you've got to create safety in relationships safety within yourself safety in your environment and and i like i like to hear you say that yeah somebody sat with me you know maybe for hours while i'm really struggling and just coming out you know going out of my mind and they just stayed there with me and they let me yell at them and they let me do you know whatever happens in that and and they didn't they didn't yell back and they didn't react to me and you know those kinds of things that you've been talking about um i think sometimes we may underestimate just how important safety is but it is vital you're not going anywhere without it totally as darkly as i'd love to get excited about how much time i know our physician spends with each resident and how beautiful and like thorough the health and physical exams are i mean yeah sometimes we get like they were so nice but really it's those moments where the safety is that feeling of they were riding with me through that um that is what i find people end up holding on to most very powerful and i imagine that you know once you've put them through and they don't get to stay very long for detox right i mean talk about the length of stay for for what you're specifically doing with them totally and i always caution on the front end too i am not the medical director and i'm certainly not the end-all be-all when it comes to duration of stay but the more typical time frames that we see if someone is going to be with us just for standalone detox we do residential in certain instances as well but probably standalone detox most frequently depending on the substance probably seven day time frame give or take some days in either direction just depending on what the medication protocol looks like and where their vitals and their withdrawal scale assessments are at um so it's definitely a team decision as we assess where they're at day by day and figuring out what that process looks like is the medication protocols changing maybe we're through a taper maybe it's taper ended yesterday and we need to see how they're doing for a couple days post taper i think that gets overlooked a ton um so that prop can look very different for a lot of people especially if we're looking at something like a methadone detox for example then we know we're looking at a series of weeks but more typical instances give or take a few days in either direction could be a seven day time frame and that is just an absolute tiny snapshot in someone's life but it feels like the longest seven days in the world true story long seven days but it's so such a brief amount of time that you get to touch them and yet you can make such a profound difference in their lives and so they get done with detox and i say that very loosely get done with because they're detoxing for quite some time the serious portion of detox and and i'm imagining that you guys work with a lot of different residential facilities and have working relationships with them and you're really just an arm of what they offer talk about some of those relationships and and how you make that work absolutely that is part of why i love my job so much is business development i get to be out in the community looking for and vetting these resources to see who was going to be the best fit for whoever might end up in front of us at the facility um our my program director and myself kind of triaged this process he has a form that he kind of goes over with everyone that assesses like what our goals are what we've seen work what hasn't worked things like that we need to know those things we need to know because it helps propel us in a direction moving forward and then he and i kind of get together with them and start really honing in on okay what do we think the best options are going to be here geographically in terms of therapeutic modalities in terms of any co-occurring disorders comorbid medical conditions age range gender like all of these things we start playing i call it the mental chest of you know finding the perfect puzzle piece and that is like where the magic happens is when we are able to find that perfect puzzle piece and i'm grateful we are in a area that has a lot of different options so we get to really explore what that is going to look like real time and have been able to develop some relationships with people that man i do the alumni calls i know how it went and i love when i get to hear someone say like man the experience that i had was with you guys was great but you did such a good job or whatever that looks like or them just saying thank you and getting them in contact with the right people um that is something really really special um because it's someone's life that's that heaviest and most beautiful and terrifying part about it is it's someone's life like the trajectory that is their life has the potential to be changed at any moment and where they go next in their next continuum of care plays a large role in that that's where they're going to spend even more time that's where they're really going to get in it with the therapist that's where you know what i mean all this stuff gets to happen that we don't see and we just hope we get to catch snippets of down the line um so that's what that looks like is so much of me staying connected with people that i would feel more than comfortable if there was like a loved one or a family member myself god forbid whatever that would be knowing that i trust them with lives that are important to me means that would be good enough for lives of my clients super powerful um i'm curious because you know a lot of a lot of roles out there are you know your role only at a residential treatment facility or in an outpatient but i hear you being really attached to the detox portion of that what keeps you there as opposed to you know moving into a different continuum part of the care process i wish i had like a more eloquent description for this but almost in a joking way the way that i describe it it just perfectly fits my kind of crazy you know what i mean it just meshes well i think we all find our environments we all find our place if we're like called here there's these all these different subsets like where you guys are in you have found your place in that space of us all coming together in this wild community to like support each other and more importantly our clients so i really like the i don't even know how to describe it the intensity and i almost joke i think like with lower level of care a different approach works because they're feeling better they're out in the community we're needing structure we're needing integration skills we're needing like a lot of different things but this is how i've been able to tap into like my softer side and still be effective as i get to be with people through some of their hardest moments physically and emotionally um which is such a good example of you being right-sized right because i think there are a lot of clinicians who are like no no i don't i don't need the first week like clean it up just a little bit i want to talk i want to get into the brain i don't want to deal with right out the gate crazy yeah i'll do the three months you know so i it's kind of like the swat team of the recovery industry a little bit you know i love that it really is it is just the triage unit man it's something like i've never experienced before but i love the kind of 24 7 component of it in some strange way i think that intensity and that type of seriousness really resonates with who i am and how i want to show up in this space that's fantastic um and and we want we the thing the goal right the goal is that they all become alumni successful at the recovery that they chose and that they're working at um and maybe talk about that just a little bit as we wind up talk about you know you've been through recovery you're not done i hear you say you still have to do your work you know when when a trigger comes up or something happens you've got to go do your work in order for you to show up on the job the way you want to show up what is what does that look like for you as you're at this stage of your recovery totally at this stage of my recovery it looks like a lot of different things that have shifted over time so i am about five years in a little over five years in at this point and there is a continual kind of like i've touched on spirit of turning it over i have a very heavy spiritual component to my recovery on a daily basis being right sized knowing when i need to listen knowing when i need to ask questions and one of the harder and more valuable things is consistency with the things that i turn to so having like a morning routine my meditation carrying with me this spirit of altruism knowing that if i do not give it away in a personal sense and keeping like a personal and professional recovery separate i think is a huge part of me effectively showing up in my professional capacity at work i think there are you know some clear distinctions that i need to make of what am i doing that is for my recovery when i am not at work and what am i doing that is allowing me to bring those like principles and tools with me when i get to show up in a professional way um and so much of i think what we hear of everyone say to do there's nothing that i do that is new or you know too trendy and different i do what probably many of the people who i've even heard of or listened to on this podcast do i mean prayer is a part of my life meditation consistency um going to my recovery groups and things like that is a massive part of my life that needs to be consistent um along with the more like clinical work that i still do like a therapist and like having all of these tools to turn to i turn to all of them because i don't want to find out which one is the one that's like really working and like which one can i live without like i don't want to take any more risks now so i try and do my joke with my try and do all the things because all the things seem to work um so like staying actively involved in therapy i mean watching for my behaviors who am i showing up as what are my intentions in this moment how can i show up better i'm like man i think a big part of it is asking myself a lot of questions on a daily basis um and being willing to look at the answers and then do something about the answers is another really big part of what i have to do to maintain that sense of kind of serenity in my recovery process because it is has been and will continue to be such an amazing and bumpy and wild journey that i would have never expected and i want to keep finding out how it goes so i just i'm gonna keep doing all the things that have gotten me here so far fantastic answer i love i love it it is it's that way and and i don't think we i don't know i'm going to speak for myself i wouldn't be happy unless it was a little crazy right because it would get too boring it's like it's got to be a little crazy and it and we got to bring that to it almost every day and it's really cool for me i'll speak for me again is that when i know i have friends that i can go to you know people that are close to me that i can go to and get that connection need right because we all know that the opposite of addiction is connection and even if i'm agitated and irritable and i don't really know what's wrong if i go connect with somebody it just feels better right and so it can be really simple and and i like the way you said that it's not necessarily that there's some amazing cutting edge way to do this it's the same for all of us so i like the way you spelled that out and i don't know of too many industries unless you're you know unless you're a you know a religious person a religious leader of some sort that we get to talk about our higher powers and our spiritual beliefs and and bring that to the table because i think that's part of so many people's recovery as well there's not a lot of places you get to talk about that openly and in you know without pushback so i love to hear you talk about that part and and how it's important i hear a lot of people that share those you know we each get to create our own belief system and what that looks like but that it's so important to recovery and to living a wholehearted life definitely it is so strange i remember coming into the industry and hearing people talk about things like that and i was like you can do that here that's very strange i was like but are you sure and it was very confusing for me and i still try to use like discretion and you know moderation and figuring out when and where it is appropriate again to like speak the truth of what my life looks like on a day-to-day basis but also being a person that represents like a facility i have to bear in mind that i always want people to know too that you know whatever like my direct beliefs are aren't getting pushed on everyone we want to find what everyone's individual journey and goals and path and that looks like but if i am like speaking to the things that i have done and what has worked for me i would be remiss to not mention how like that kind of spiritual component like i've definitely had some massive shifts in perspective that have helped me get to where i am today oh well i am mockup has been filled today i have loved talking with you and learning about your journey and about you know the detox world and and how you're making a difference in your space showing up on your size and and all of the things we talked about today which are just you know it's powerful and it's reaffirming uh you know just that human experience oh thank you guys so much thank you for reaching out and giving me the opportunity to do this i've had such a great time talking with you guys hey you have fun energy thanks for sharing your passion thank you so much one other thing we ought to do is is maybe share how people can get a hold of you if they want to make contact with you later totally i'm happy for anyone to reach out to me either via text or email or whatever works i am available on linkedin as well that was how we got connected my name is sasha antoon on there and i'm happy to give you my information if you want to like either post it in the you know descriptory section of this i'm happy to pass that along as well i love connecting with people and i'm here to answer questions that i'm here to ask and answer questions that is what i do every day and i love being a part of that beautifully said all right well thanks so much for for sharing all of that today and um i'm sure people are going to reach out and want to know more oh i can't wait thank you thanks sasha AllOld Time FavoritesRecently uploaded